How can we word the FAQs to make clear the site policy on list questions?

Question

We should decide and make clear what list questions (if any) are appropriate on genealogy.se and which are not. And what should be done to make a good question from a question that may have a list answer.

For example "What are the best genealogy sites" is a "bad" list question not just because the answer is a list but because it's subjective opinion and it's way too broad (ie it's not a specific problem). "what are the references and citations for William Brewster (1535-1590) being born in Scooby, England?" is a very specific genealogical problem that still produces a list for an answer. In between might be "what sites have references/citations for William Brewster?". Also in between might be "what lineage and heritage societies might I be eligible for if I have ancestors who immigrated to Connecticut in the late 1600's?". Can we distill something to put in the FAQ about do/don'ts wrt list questions.

Some se sites have explicit FAQs dealing with list questions, many do not. We should give clear guidance in FAQs so closers can reference when closing a question, and questioners can learn so they can ask appropriately. Just saying 'no lists' might shut down many of the very people we are trying to attract - expert genealogists.

See What's the opinion on "list" questions? for a discussion on list questions in stack overflow. Alot of the issues raised (pro and con) apply to genealogy.se as well

One of my reasons for creating this question is I think this site aims to recruit genealogy experts and my experience is most genealogists are not computer experts and are probably unfamiliar with se. I'm a newbie myself that found se thru genealogy, but I do consider myself expert in certain computer areas. I joined other se sites and perused the questions of interest to me (and of course discovered I'd been using se for years when I googled for answers - I just didn't notice that was where the answers came from). Looking thru those sites for list questions, there were many users who were 'shut down' by their questions being closed, alot of times without explanation. Since genealogy involves lots of lists, we will have a large 'expert in genealogy, newbie in se' community, I think the faq should make whatever the list policy is clear.

At the risk of repeating myself - the reason for this question is to encourage the participation of expert genealogists and give them guidance since the are mostly not se experts.

Answer 1

The problem with list type questions is:

• They attract a lot of spam.
• They tend to generate link-only answers or one-liners.
• They eventually become outdated, oftentimes quite quickly.
• It's difficult to determine what the best answer is and vote good stuff to the top.
• Most importantly, they don't focus on solving real problems.

Remember, the goal is to build an expert level site where people can get answers to problems they face in the Genealogy field. If you come here and simply ask "Where can I learn more about 19th century German military records", you're asking us to point you away from our site.

In one of the suggested "required reading" blog posts from one of our community managers, titled No Artificial Intelligence in Area 51, this is the reason given for why the Artificial Intelligence Stack Exchange beta was shut down:

It wasn’t so much the lack of questions that was of concern — a site can stay in beta as long as it takes — but the conspicuous lack of expert-level questions.

Thus, on a site meant to attract experts, you should instead treat the people here as the experts. Let them solve your problem. Ask them to teach you about 19th century German military research to help you find more about your ancestral roots. The questions will not only be more interesting, but the learning will happen here, not somewhere else. :) With that said, if the answer to your question just happens to contain a link along with an awesome explanation, so be it, but asking for links and nothing else isn't good for our fledgling community.

Remember, the goal is to be better than all of the other forums and sites our there that already have lists of things. Hope this helps! :)

Answer 2

The idea is that questions that don't focus on a real problem, that solicit users to provide "lists of things" don't tend to fit the Q&A model very well for several reasons.

Consider this example question, taken from Q&A is Hard, Let's Go Shopping, except I've added a few more answers to help make a point:

Q: What’s the best low light point-and-shoot camera?

A: Canon S90 and Lumix LX3.

A: Nikon D3.

A: My favorite is Pentax S2.

A: See this link to buy low light cameras from our store

The end result is a post filled with nothing but an uninspired list of everyone's favorite cameras, with no way to validate the information and determine what is best, and no explanations as to why it's the best choice.

However, that's not to say these posts should be closed immediately and tossed into the garbage bin. The first one should probably be edited to include more specific information about the problem. Otherwise, we could end up with a lot of answers that don't help solve the asker's problem and confuse visitors looking for a solution, not a link farm.

The second question appears to have plenty of detail, but the answer could be improved. The person posting appears to be asking a follow up question to help the asker clarify the post, and this should be done with a comment.

The Q&A is Hard, Let's Go Shopping blog post recommend teaching people how to fish rather than just giving them a fish. Consider that it may be more valuable for a person to learn how to evaluate a Genealogy site rather than just giving them a link. One goal here is to teach and to learn. Consider this edited photography question, which focuses more on information that can help people for years to come:

Q: How do I tell which point-and-shoot cameras take good low light photos?

A: I strongly recommend looking for something with

• a fast lens (2.0 at least)
• reasonable ISO handling (at least 400, but preferably 800)
• the biggest sensor available

The sum of these factors are really critical for low light situations.

So, I'd propose taking a hard look at these questions, and also taking a look at what one of the community managers said here about avoiding overly trivial questions during the beta, and then discussing how we can edit and improve them.

Most of the time, when we ask for a link or a resource, there's a real problem under the surface that we can elaborate on. It's just a matter of asking the right follow-up questions in the comments to figure out what that problem really is. Hope this helps!

Answer 3

We shouldn't allow them. As you said, there is no definitive answer.

But I also think your examples aren't the best. The first one could easily be turned into a good question by asking, "Where can I find Jewish Historical Information Pre WWII in Europe?" The second question is also soliciting help and not necessarily wanting a list as an answer.

A better example of a bad list question is Family tree constructing web sites comparsion.

Answer 4

Interesting. Lists are totally against the Stack Exchange model. Expert questions with problems to be solved by expert answers are what's wanted.

I'm interested in what the moderators have to say, now that they've seen the types of questions that genealogists have been posing on this site.

Should genealogy follow the model? Or not?

...

After contemplation (it didn't take much), if we allow lists, we'll start to see questions like these:

• Where should I research my British ancestors?
• Where should I research my French ancestors?
• Where should I research my Dutch ancestors?
• ...
• What are good programs for drawing family trees?
• What are good online programs?
• What are good programs for the Mac?
• ...

People like lists of links on the subjects they are interested in. As a result, these will get lots of upvotes as they did on Stack Overflow and other Stack Exchange sites before those in the know realized they were poison and started closing and deleting them.

Why are the poison? Because they are like weeds that start growing everywhere, and they obscure the flowers (the expert questions).

New people will come to this site and see the lists of links. Will they then be motivated to add some good questions that they'd like expert answers for? No. They'll add another lists question.

So no. We shouldn't allow lists questions.

Caveat: Some questions border on being a lists question. It is subjective, so it's hard to get a clear divide and say one question is bad and the other is good. We won't be able to be perfect on this, e.g.:

• What tools exist for collecting and managing evidence?

• Citation guides for family history and genealogy

• After the web, where is the next place to start searching?

Are these list questions or not? Not so easy to say.

Answer 5

My post below follows a posting I made here.

This seems to me an educational issue.

Most list questions are low quality questions that could be re-modeled into great questions by adding context/specificity.

I'd much rather see a description, including specifics, of the problem that is to be solved.

(1) We may have some re-educating to do. Recall that that during the definition phase, questions were closed off as being too localized. Even though the concept of "too localized" was challenged, methinks some folks interpreted the closures and down votes as a signal that they should generalize their questions. At least I think that may have resulted in some of the overly general/broad questions we have seen.

(2) Answers are coming in quickly, before comments can be posted about ways to improve the question. Not sure we have found the best way to articulate the importance of improving the questions quality.

Answer 6

My opinion is that they are useful and they should be allowed in the long run, but in these early days of beta we should not be having too many of them based on the newbie advice wrt beta (ie have more 'expert' questions at startup, not 'newbie' questions).

Answer 7

This seems to me an educational issue.

Most list questions are low quality questions that could be re-modeled into great questions by adding context/specificity.

Rather than ... a good site to seek ... I'd much rather see a description, including specifics, of the problem that is to be solved.

(1) We may have some re-educating to do. Recall that that during the definition phase, questions were closed off as being too localized. Even though the concept of "too localized" was challenged, methinks some folks interpreted the closures and down votes as a signal that they should generalize their questions. At least I think that may have resulted in some of the overly general/broad questions we have seen.

(2) Answers are coming in quickly, before comments can be posted about ways to improve the question. Not sure we have found the best way to articulate the importance of improving the questions quality.

No doubt @Jmort253 covered much of this in his comment.

Answer 8

One of the differences between G&FH and many of the other SE sites is that, here, an answer from today will (on the whole) still be a valid answer in the future - after all, we are talking about the past. And by answer, I mean a proper answer, not just a link to another site, no matter how distinguished.

Many of the other SE sites are technologically cutting edge, so today's answer will be obsolete in the near future.

As such, lists (of lists) are probably a very useful feature - but not in a question format.

As Luke mentioned in his comment above, perhaps this is a topic to consider the Community Wiki for?

Answer 9

I see nothing wrong with allowing such questions, and the answers as well.

Yes, the more correct one will probably get voted up, but such lists can sometimes make a huge find for anyone that is looking for info.

The general knowledge of the mass, is always better than the private knowledge of a single researcher.

Also, as the site will grow, and new sites/apps are been created and developed, these lists will get updated.

A good example can be such lists on SO. A question from 2009, will have answers related to that period, but the newer answers will provide more relevant solutions for today.

All in all, we need to make sure that there is no hidden marketing/commercial in the answers/quesions.